[Branden.d]

I recently noticed a small movement with my drive belt tensioner. A little backstory on my recent issues: I've replaced 3 radiators in the past year. the first probably due to old age, i suspect. The second one and most likely the third one were because I didn't bleed the system correctly or because I bought cheap radar detectors off Amazon. So anyways, recently the truck started to get a little hot due to the third radiator having a leak in the fin just on the other side of the plastic side the top hose is connected to. I still drove the truck until the truck was probably close to having no water in the radiator, and on that day, i think all the radiator water did leak out because the truck then began getting much hotter, probably to the point where you could say definitively it was overheated, and I drove it for idk, 5-10 minutes with the gauge at 65-75%, then the truck started to act weird, so I pulled over and turned the car off and opened the hood. then left for another 2-3 hours with the truck just parked to cool off.



I came back and decided to drive it a bit more after putting some water in the truck. I took it just across the street and then pulled over and added more water to it to get it back to my house. I changed the radiator and thermostat and antifreeze and distilled water, and then I started it to start bleeding the system. I did it for like 2-3 cycles for like 20-25 minutes with the engine running and the heater on and the bleeder screw removed. After I felt like the thermostat was opened, I turned the car off and refilled the system, which only took a little more water.

The next time I turned the car on, it felt like it was idleing rough. I let it run for about enough time to get it running at normal operating temperature, shut it down, and check the water level. I didn't lose any coolant. Then, when I took it around the block, it was kind of rough running, and I also felt some hesitation when pressing the gas pedal. I put it back in the garage, thinking maybe it's possible that overheating the engine could cause the valve seats to get stuck open or closed because I watched YouTube and that was stated in a few videos.

So it very well could be that my motor mounts have totally failed. For awhile, I've been thinking the motor has been sinking a little and also going closer to the firewall and to the passenger side. A visual inspection of the mounts shows very noticable breaks in the rubber but no metal-to-metal contact yet.

But then I noticed as the car was running that the drive belt tension and pulley had a weird motion to them. I took the belt off, and this attached video is of this possible solution.





There is a lot to unpack here, but I would appreciate your suggestions and ideas as to why my car could be running so rough. Just a few more mentionable things:



The lights on the dashboard are pulsing or surging.

-The drive belt tensioner has a forward and backward movement when applying pressure to make the belt loose enough to install it around all the pulleys.

No water was detected within the oil.

and the oil has just been changed since the radiator has been replaced after the rough idle.

- Also took the air intake off and sprayed the throttle body orifice with the T.B. cleaner.

as well as replacing the throttle body position sensor, neither of these two helped the idle issues.

Also, I checked one plug on each side of the engine; the plugs look normal and are gapped correctly; there are no oil signs on the threads or any abnormal burning or discoloration signs. looked normal.

- plugs and coils were replaced about 7 months ago. The air filter was replaced two months ago.

car has been smelling rich for about 2 months now but i let it go for awhile because the car hasn't been showing any other issues other than overheating but that's maybe stopped and I haven't tested it out enough to find out because I think the car is still not running right so I don't want to push it to force the problem to get any worse.

-Car just passed 203k miles, which I regret even thinking about.



Any help is greatly appreciated, and hopefully someone on here can provide me with more information that may help with my truck's problem.


2003 dodge dakota tensionier pully, normal to move such as the video shows. forward and back motion video link because it wouldn't upload on this forum no matter how I tried to shorten the video or make it less resolution.

 

[oldmarine]

I won't attempt to address all the issues you brought up. (I'll share!) Your belt tensioner definitely needs to be replaced. There's enough wobble there that the belt could come off, especially during acceleration or at higher RPMs. Second, if your cooling system continues to overheat, do a chemical check of the coolant to see if exhaust gases are present. Your head gasket could be leaking only between the cylinder and the water jacket, and you won't see evidence of oil in the water or water in the oil. Third, as you said it is smelling rich, buy or borrow a scanner that can read live data in the engine and check your fuel trims - short term and long term. If the total fuel trim for a given bank is more than 10 (i.e., if bank 1 short term is 8 and bank one long term is 9, totaling 17), you have to find what is causing the PCM to feed extra fuel into the engine. Often this is a vacuum leak.
You didn't mention a check engine light or codes. Use the scanner to check for codes and correct as necessary. If you need help on the codes, be sure and state the code exactly -- not what the description says. For example, give the code "P0442" instead of "evaporative emission system problem".

 

[Branden.d]

I won't attempt to address all the issues you brought up. (I'll share!) Your belt tensioner definitely needs to be replaced. There's enough wobble there that the belt could come off, especially during acceleration or at higher RPMs. Second, if your cooling system continues to overheat, do a chemical check of the coolant to see if exhaust gases are present. Your head gasket could be leaking only between the cylinder and the water jacket, and you won't see evidence of oil in the water or water in the oil. Third, as you said it is smelling rich, buy or borrow a scanner that can read live data in the engine and check your fuel trims - short term and long term. If the total fuel trim for a given bank is more than 10 (i.e., if bank 1 short term is 8 and bank one long term is 9, totaling 17), you have to find what is causing the PCM to feed extra fuel into the engine. Often this is a vacuum leak.
You didn't mention a check engine light or codes. Use the scanner to check for codes and correct as necessary. If you need help on the codes, be sure and state the code exactly -- not what the description says. For example, give the code "P0442" instead of "evaporative emission system problem".

Thank you I will try to locate a scan tool that will provide that kinda data and won't totatlly break the bank lol.

As for check engine lights. It's been on since day I purchased it. Didn't find this out untill the drive home in which seller responded with "yeah I thought I fixed that" after my 20 minuet drive half way home. We talked a bit more and he actually drove to me to give me a new charcoal cannister and some other part I can't even locate on the vehical but it's a smaller looking plastic tank resembling a smaller version of the canister.

Anyways I replaced the charcoal canister and the hoses and the purge valve. Never had a actual scanner to clear clear the stored codes only a 20-50$ one and right now that's M.I.A since I let someone use it then when I got it back I wasn't paying attention to where I put it now it'd gone lol. So I'll go autozone and get the codes read and report back for now and work on buying a real scanner tool or borrow someone's. I appreciate the response and time you took writing it.

 

[Branden.d]

So I found my scanner , it says I have a po440. Generic code for evap system. Any one know where I can find the leak detection pump? Have a new one yhe p.o. gave me and I can't seam to locate the installed one anywhere to replace it.

Also bought a new scanner coming tomorrow that has live data readings. @oldmarine

 

[oldmarine]

There's a pretty comprehensive discussion of the evaporative emission system here. There are two possible locations for the purge solenoid, next to the battery or on the firewall. But as far as I know the only location I'm aware for for the leak detection pump is behind the battery and below the power distribution center (underhood fuse box). The OP on that thread provided a good hand-drawn diagram at entry #6, which is a very good reference for the components and tubing.

 

[Branden.d]

Okay

There's a pretty comprehensive discussion of the evaporative emission system here. There are two possible locations for the purge solenoid, next to the battery or on the firewall. But as far as I know the only location I'm aware for for the leak detection pump is behind the battery and below the power distribution center (underhood fuse box). The OP on that thread provided a good hand-drawn diagram at entry #6, which is a very good reference for the components and tubing.

Okay. I'll check there post out. And my purge valve is by the battery. And I've changed that out once trying to get the cel off but it didn't fix anything unfortunately light still came back.

 

[immattj]

Have you changed out ALL your hoses/lines from the purge solenoid & LDP (including from LDP to charcoal cannister)? In my own case, I had numerous leaks in that plumbing.

 

[Branden.d]

Have you changed out ALL your hoses/lines from the purge solenoid & LDP (including from LDP to charcoal cannister)? In my own case, I had numerous leaks in that plumbing.

No only from the purge valve to somewhere near the throttle body and the ones on the charcoal canister. I can't even find the LDP

 

[oldmarine]

I just did some more research on the leak detection pump. The 4.7L engine uses a different pump than the 3.9L and 5.9L (which are the same), and is located in a different place. The few videos I can find on YouTube show that the pump is located under the truck on the driver's side, near the charcoal canister, and is on a bracket bolted to the frame. Follow the hoses from the charcoal canister, and one of them should go to a component with two hose connectors and a three wire connector. That is the LDP.

 

[Branden.d]

These kinda look the same size. You guys think this will be alright? I did order it for my car.

 

[Branden.d]

I just did some more research on the leak detection pump. The 4.7L engine uses a different pump than the 3.9L and 5.9L (which are the same), and is located in a different place. The few videos I can find on YouTube show that the pump is located under the truck on the driver's side, near the charcoal canister, and is on a bracket bolted to the frame. Follow the hoses from the charcoal canister, and one of them should go to a component with two hose connectors and a three wire connector. That is the LDP.

Yeah they must have deleted mine . I cannot see it anywhere under the driver seat or even further back by the gas tank.

 

[Branden.d]

Nevermind yeah I did find that pump. But the hoses look in usable condition. I'll have to get a leak detection pump built or bought to check it out.

 

[Branden.d]

The previous owner gave me this as he bought it to try and replace it but can't find this under my truck either lol.

 

[oldmarine]

That's a vacuum reservoir, used to assist cruise control maintain a steady vacuum source. It's located under the cowl below the windshield on the passenger side. It has nothing to do with evaporative emission controls. I was looking in RockAuto under exhaust and emission to see if anything looked like this picture, and there it was, right under vacuum hose. I guess they couldn't find another category to put it in.

RockAuto is out of stock on that item, so you may want to hang on to it. It may become valuable.

 

[Branden.d]

So I just put the new part in anyways. Ima try to start it since the belt tightened up and the old part Def has bearings that were bad.

 

[Branden.d]

That's a vacuum reservoir, used to assist cruise control maintain a steady vacuum source. It's located under the cowl below the windshield on the passenger side. It has nothing to do with evaporative emission controls. I was looking in RockAuto under exhaust and emission to see if anything looked like this picture, and there it was, right under vacuum hose. I guess they couldn't find another category to put it in.

RockAuto is out of stock on that item, so you may want to hang on to it. It may become valuable.

I just did some more research on the leak detection pump. The 4.7L engine uses a different pump than the 3.9L and 5.9L (which are the same), and is located in a different place. The few videos I can find on YouTube show that the pump is located under the truck on the driver's side, near the charcoal canister, and is on a bracket bolted to the frame. Follow the hoses from the charcoal canister, and one of them should go to a component with two hose connectors and a three wire connector. That is the LDP.

Okay so here's what we got so far.
Was hoping to be able to share the live data I recoreded to the scanner but unfortunately not I guess.

Here's kinda where the short term and long term fuel numbers are.

2003 dodge dakota 4.7l slt fuel trims

youtube.com

the numbers that you referenced didnt look like the numbers that I was getting.

Also with the newer scan tool I found out also that that one po440 code was the only stored or pending codes present.


Leak detection pump hose does appear like it has a crack in it but I believe ima get a smoke testing machine soon if not tomorrow to test the evap system when I was underneath looking at those two things it sounded like something was hissing kinda from the charcoal canister area to up be the top of the gas tank area . Couldn't pinpoint the location due to my muffler also has a small leak that I just found out about.

 

[oldmarine]

The numbers I was giving were just an example. (Short term 8 + long term 9 = 17). In your video, and I'm assuming this was done at idle, you have a short term about 0 (+ or -) + long term about 15 = 15. Any time the total is more than 10 (or less than -10 for rich conditions), it should be investigated and corrected. The fact that your short term is about 0 is good. That means that whatever is causing the lean condition isn't changing. One thing to check is to accelerate the engine to 2500 rpm and see what the fuel trims are. If the total is less than at idle, it generally means that a vacuum leak is causing these readings. If the total doesn't change much, you'll have to look elsewhere.
I'm glad you included the MAP value on your video, because this may be the source (or one of the sources) of your fuel trim issue. The MAP value of about 4 is VERY low, unless you're at a very high altitude. At 5000 feet, a normal idle reading would be around 8. At sea level, a normal idle reading would be around 12 - 14. A reading of 4, as in your video, could be due to a bad MAP sensor, or possibly the wiring changing the voltage (not an open or a short) going to the PCM.
A bad MAP sensor signal means that the PCM is not sending the right amount of fuel to the engine in relation to the amount of air coming in (measured in part by the MAP sensor). This can cause drivability issues that you described in your initial post. MAP sensors don't go bad very often, but it seems this may be one of those times.

 

[Branden.d]

The numbers I was giving were just an example. (Short term 8 + long term 9 = 17). In your video, and I'm assuming this was done at idle, you have a short term about 0 (+ or -) + long term about 15 = 15. Any time the total is more than 10 (or less than -10 for rich conditions), it should be investigated and corrected. The fact that your short term is about 0 is good. That means that whatever is causing the lean condition isn't changing. One thing to check is to accelerate the engine to 2500 rpm and see what the fuel trims are. If the total is less than at idle, it generally means that a vacuum leak is causing these readings. If the total doesn't change much, you'll have to look elsewhere.
I'm glad you included the MAP value on your video, because this may be the source (or one of the sources) of your fuel trim issue. The MAP value of about 4 is VERY low, unless you're at a very high altitude. At 5000 feet, a normal idle reading would be around 8. At sea level, a normal idle reading would be around 12 - 14. A reading of 4, as in your video, could be due to a bad MAP sensor, or possibly the wiring changing the voltage (not an open or a short) going to the PCM.
A bad MAP sensor signal means that the PCM is not sending the right amount of fuel to the engine in relation to the amount of air coming in (measured in part by the MAP sensor). This can cause drivability issues that you described in your initial post. MAP sensors don't go bad very often, but it seems this may be one of those times.

Man if I had money to spare I'd pay you in a heart beat for this info. I really do appreciate it. And minuet I'm off work I'll investigate into the running at 2500 rpm to see how much the numbers fluctuate.

I live in las vegas so the high altitude thing is not a cause round here. I shall return after work and get some answers I may just pickup the sensor and just change it out if it's easy. Once again I appricate you and the other guys giving me solid advice on trouble shooting this, right now I need my truck back and hopefully this will all lead to me getting it back on the road!

 

[oldmarine]

From the FSM for the 4.7L engine:
The MAP sensor is located on the front of the intake manifold. An o-ring seals the sensor to the intake manifold.

Also from the FSM:
The MAP sensor is used as an input to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). . . The MAP sensor input is the number one contributor to fuel injector pulse width.

 

[Branden.d]

And

From the FSM for the 4.7L engine:
The MAP sensor is located on the front of the intake manifold. An o-ring seals the sensor to the intake manifold.

Also from the FSM:
The MAP sensor is used as an input to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). . . The MAP sensor input is the number one contributor to fuel injector pulse width. QUOTE]




And this part means what exactly? The number 4 would be correct or incorrect?
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