Dakota Forumz banner

21 - 40 of 113 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
All welded up and sealed with epoxy where not welded. Still a couple more hours hand work on the ports. The next step was a lot of fun and a mess. Drilling a 5/16 hole in each plate and inject expanding foam in the cavities. I found a plastic jug with a lid about the same volume drilled hole and injected it and counted the length of fill. After a wait of 15 min it looked like about the right amount. Maybe not quite enough. Feeling brave I drilled the plates and shot foam an extra two seconds in each just in case. I waited and nothing so I shoot another two seconds in each. The instruction suggest gloves, eye protection and safety equipment of any kind you have. I had my gloves and eye protection. About that time it decided to start coming out. I was scooping it into the trash as fast as I could. Then my gloves got stuck together. I took them off and a really stupid move. At that point I should have run screaming from the building. My fingers were stuck together it was in my hair and all over me. I couldn't see though my glasses. Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
This is after it calmed down a bit. There are two wood blocks to keep the foam from spreading the plates and the putty knives are to tighten them. What would have been nice to have would be a putty knife. The ports are now insulated on the inside. I'm not expecting any additional HP from the Keg. While I'm leaving the keg for now my goal is maintaining low end torque, throttle response and cooler air within this Keg. That will mean stopping splash oil from valve train, the 1/4 inch Hughes plate and perhaps a sheet of insulation and a reflective plate? Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Below the Keg the lifter valley has oil drain back holes cast into the forward low spots but not at the rear. Again there is signs of baked on oil and it gets worse as you go back. I wonder is a couple well placed small holes drilled would put a end to some of this. I know a splash pan will be made to keep hot oil off the Keg. Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
The only reason for these pictures is I'm rebuilding with an eye to improve. Figuring out what happens and why after high miles may be helpful. Seeing the timing chain set up I have far less concern about the one in my truck. Over all the condition of everything in this engine is great. Plain to see it suffered a steady diet of oil. I'd have no problem hone, clean, cam bearings, freeze plugs. Polish crank, rings bearings, oil pump, Timing kit with tensioner,. gaskets and a valve job. Maybe next time as that is not what this is about is it? As we all know all power is made above the piston every thing below tends to use that power. It has been suggested I pick up a factory manual. I hope it will have better info than I have found other places. Taking physical measurements as I go paints a different story from the books so far. Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Since I plan a number of changes to this engine I took measurements as it came apart. A list starting with cyl wear and taper, piston to deck, rod side clearance, rod and main crank journals. Once the block has the Cam bearings and freeze plugs removed it will be dropped off to be cleaned , bored .020 and honed to size. The crank will be ground on the rods and polished mains. While all rod journals were within spec they were all different by a couple tenths. Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I don't think the motor mounts on this engine are Dakota. This old girl may be from a Ram or Van? My interest in rod side clearance is we use side clearance to adjust oil pressure and help cool the oil. Also I looked into reconditioning these rods with ARP hardware and converting to floated pins. Looking around I found Scat 5.2 con rods in sets of 8 that are 100 grams lighter, have 7/16 ARP bolts, bushed and balanced for $400. Being V8 rods they are thicker and the bearing tang grooves need adjusting. Why floated? A old school engine builder would either have a piston pin polished to allow a float in a press rod or use floated rods ( which work well with the new KB flat top pistons with Spiral locks ) to do some checking. It's one piston and rod used to check piston to beck in all cyls. This is a check on stroke which checking the old pistons they were all .060 down the bore. I suspect the stroke is good on all pins but it will be checked when rods are ground and it should be fine. Lock the crank with #1 at TDC and with one rod check all pistons in that one cyl they should all be the same. Then with one piston check all rods to check center to center. Oh yes the Pistons are 5.2 and come in a set of 8 as well. There is a very good chance all this checking will confirm all is correct. I'm past ready for the block and crank to come back. According to the specs I have found this set of pistons will be very close to zero deck. If things work to my advantage I'll need to surface the block .010 or less and the same on the heads to produce a 9.7 to 1 C/R. Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
This represents $800. and at first glance those valve reliefs look big. The pistons now will come up the bore the full .060* putting them much closer to the valves. I also have the Hughes mild V6 camshaft, with more lift and a little duration. I will degree the cam and check piston to valve clearance. Also the CC volume of the reliefs figure well into C/R numbers. If we are still counting I paid $60 to have the rods all 8 side clearence I also decided to maintain the .008 side clearance as measure in old engine. And the cam and spring, caps, and keepers added another $550. The skirts on these are short, if you look at the last picture you can see the tip of the piston skirt proud of the bore in the area of rear freeze plug. What if each time one of the piston skirts comes out of the bore heat expansion makes it want to grow then have to be forced back in the bore? They just chopped that off, if it don't come out, don't have to think about it. I have been using skirt coating for years way before it became popular. These pistons run tight clearance and still use normal tension oil control rings. Steve

* Not fully trusting the math or numbers provided these pistons are taller and will be very cloe to zero deck and if as it appears .010 + will bring them flush.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
While cleaning the dirty piston pin bore and connecting the two would be exact but not as good a picture. Here is where things get interesting, Both these pistons are for the same engine and look very different. OK made 20 years apart and one is a production part and the other a reasonably priced performance part. Everything we see has a reason and is based in science. The tiny grooves above the top ring reduces friction should should it touch? The placement of the top ring is based on expected heat and the ring gap is suggested to be greater than what has been used in the past. To my surprise that space below the top and above the second ring is there for several reasons all good it seems. The placement of the second groove and it's relation to the oil ring is on purpose. I like the larger oil ring with std pressure and drilled oil drain backs. Yes, the skirt is shorter and coated, all improvements.
Why are we setting up zero piston to deck? We are dealing with ever poorer quality gas the days of HESS 101 are gone. Running zero deck reduces detonation and if you can set the quench between the flat piston and the flat areas around combustion chamber even better. In my reading C/R is listed at 9 to 1 for the 3.9 V6. My measurements give 8.6 with every benefit. Bringing this piston all the way up with those 5 CC eyebrows and a skim off heads and block, should be 9.5 using the same figures for gasket and above ring. Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Now empty I have cleaned it as best I can in my shop. I do my own cam bearings and freeze plugs so they are out. I like to de-burr all edges and run a tap in all threaded holes. Anywhere I feel I can encourage quicker oil drain back I go for it. The next time I see this it should be bored cleaned and honed. I will pre-assemble and check piston to deck. If figures are correct a skim cut will bring it flush. Any and all machine work puts a lot of trash in the block. That's why the cam bearings and freeze plugs are left out till all machine work is complete. People make fun of me for how clean a block needs to be. At this point I have cleaned taped up and pressure washed as it came out of my truck bed. Once all brackets removed and on engine stand pressure wash again and high pressure air dry. Once stripped and empty cam bearings and freeze plugs removed another bath hand wash with engine brushes hot soapy water and a blow dry. The kid at the machine shop who helped me unload it said " this is different " I replied " yes it's a Dodge V6 " and he said " no it's clean ". It will be cleaned there with what ever the government will allow now likely dish soap.Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Now empty I have cleaned it as best I can in my shop. I do my own cam bearings and freeze plugs so they are out. I like to de-burr all edges and run a tap in all threaded holes. Anywhere I feel I can encourage quicker oil drain back I go for it. The next time I see this it should be bored cleaned and honed. I will pre-assemble and check piston to deck. If figures are correct a skim cut will bring it flush. Any and all machine work puts a lot of trash in the block. That's why the cam bearings and freeze plugs are left out till all machine work is complete. People make fun of me for how clean a block needs to be. At this point I have cleaned taped up and pressure washed as it came out of my truck bed. Once all brackets removed and on engine stand pressure wash again and high pressure air dry. Once stripped and empty cam bearings and freeze plugs removed another bath hand wash with engine brushes hot soapy water and a blow dry. The kid at the machine shop who helped me unload it said " this is different " I replied " yes it's a Dodge V6 " and he said " no it's clean ". It will be cleaned there with what ever the government will allow now likely dish soap.Steve
Steve
The biggest thing you're doing to increase performance is increasing cr on that engine. I don't know your cam specs but they can't be too different from stock.
You also moved up your power band a bit on what you did to the keg.
The belly pan was too thin from the factory. This caused the pan to warp from engine heat allowing all sorts of stuff to seep through its increased voids.
 
21 - 40 of 113 Posts
Top